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In this raw and revealing conversation,  I sit down with my dear friend Nicole Sachs, a psychotherapist and pioneer in chronic pain recovery, to explore how emotional wounds can manifest as physical symptoms. We both open up about our healing journeys—mine with TMJ and trauma recovery, and hers with debilitating back pain—and how the practice of JournalSpeak became a path to lasting relief.

Together, we shine a light on the emotional root of chronic pain—and the simple, powerful tools that can help you begin to release it.

What You’ll Learn:

  • What JournalSpeak is and how to use it
  • How repressed emotions can turn into chronic pain
  • Why healing doesn’t require “fixing” your life
  • How I worked through TMJ and trauma using this method
  • The connection between self-compassion and physical freedom
  • Why the nervous system interprets urgency as fear—and how to interrupt the cycle

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disclaimer

This podcast is intended to educate, inspire, and support you on your personal journey towards inner peace. I am not a psychologist or a medical doctor and do not offer any professional health or medical advice. If you are suffering from any psychological or medical conditions, please seek help from a qualified health professional.

dear gabby #262 May 19, 2025 physical wellbeing

how to free yourself from chronic pain & anxiety | big talk with nicole sachs

[00:00:00] The following podcast is a dear media production.

Hey there. Welcome to Dear Gabby. I'm your host Gabby Bernstein, and if you landed here, it is absolutely no accident. It means that you're ready to feel good and manifest a life beyond your wildest dreams. Let's get started.

Welcome back to Dear Gabby. Welcome back to the show. Today's episode's really special and I want you to consider this. What if you could heal your chronic pain through having a new relationship to it? What if you could perceive pain in a totally different way and experience miraculous healing? If you ever experience any form of pain, I'm gonna tell you to listen up.

If you've ever experienced any form of emotional disturbance that you really couldn't shake, I want you to listen up if you are [00:01:00] open to receiving guidance on how to not only heal your physical pain, but also heal the belief systems and the energetic systems that have held you in patterns that are not very serving of your soul and are destructive in any way, particularly physically.

This is your episode. This is your episode today. I am joined by my longtime friend, Nicole Sachs. She's my friend. She's a speaker, she's a writer, she's a psychotherapist. She has dedicated her work to the treatment of chronic pain and conditions and her new book, mind Your Body, a Revolutionary program to release chronic pain and anxiety.

The show is major guides. We're gonna discuss how your stored trauma and suppressed emotional wounds and your suppressed emotional beliefs are resulting in your chronic pain. Nicole has this incredible practice called Journal Speak. It's a practice that she taught me during Covid, and it really, really changed my life. It truly changed my life, and her work is really informed [00:02:00] and based on the work of Dr. John Sarno. Who is a hero for so many of us. And today I'm gonna let Nicole introduce his work and then also really introduce her take and her experience of this work and how she has then carried on his legacy, really.

I mean, she has stepped into these huge shoes and carried on this legacy to offer us the most transformational healing from our chronic pain and the path that actually can give us spontaneous healing, truly miraculous, spontaneous healing. And I don't say that lightly. I really don't, but I mean it.

Because I've experienced it, I've experienced it, and I've been using Nicole's practices for TMJ, for my gastro issues that I had for so many years, and the work that she teaches has just transformed my life. For Gabby coaching members out there, I wanna recommend we also got this self-help body parts check-in, which will be really supportive for you inside the app.

So when you listen to Nicole's work, go to the self-help section and there's the self-help body parts practice, which is really [00:03:00] valuable for a lot of what we're talking about today, which is befriending the pain, befriending the body, and really becoming curious and compassionate towards those parts of yourself.

So if you are a member, go over to your self-help section. If you're not a member, go to dear gabby.com/app to try it out for seven days free and definitely do this self-help body parts check-in as a way of guiding your energy back to a place of calm and connection and curiosity, and back into that self energy.

So today my friend, you are here. I am here. My gorgeous sister, Nicole Sachs, the one and only. It is just epic to have you here. I'm so excited to be here. And everything you just said, I was mesmerized because you get it so big and that is, it's such a delight for me to be in conversation with someone who really gets it.

I really get it. I've studied it, but I studied it through you, through Sarno. I've studied it, but I've lived it. [00:04:00] Yes. Right. I've lived it. I know that we can heal our pain. Yeah. Talk to me about what that means to you. The first thing I always wanna say, and anytime I'm interviewed, it's the most important thing I start with is the pain is not in your head.

You are not creating it. You are not hysterical. You're not overly sensitive and you're not at fault. And that's so important because so many people are suffering. And when they reach the point where they're willing to have a conversation about a paradigm shift or a mindset shift, or seeing something differently.

The biggest barrier can be their own thinking. Mm-hmm. The biggest barrier can be their own defensiveness or resistance, like what are you saying here? And that was the biggest barrier for Dr. Sarno. Okay. Yep. It was. Yeah. That, you know, people said, oh, Sarno, right. That's the guy who says the pain is in your head.

Yeah. So I have to start there because as Gabby has lived it, I have also lived it. I'm sure we'll get into that a little bit in this conversation. And so what I'm saying when I say that there can be a [00:05:00] different way to look at chronic pain. Is that I'm teaching most people something they already believe.

So I could be lecturing to a room of a thousand people and I can say, raise your hand if you've ever had a stressful day, or you were overwhelmed and you got a headache, right? Yeah. Every hand in the room goes up. Now I say, okay, keep your hands held high. If you ran to the ER that night for a CT scan of your brain, you know you are sure you had a brain tumor.

So everyone laughs and they put their hand down and I say, you see? We all believe that emotional stimuli can cause physical reaction. Stress can cause a headache. We all know that if you get broken up with by your partner, you can lose your appetite. We all know that when you're moved or you're sad, water falls out of your face, right?

Yes. The most obvious, yes. Emotional stimuli leads to crying, and so when we realize that it's not so threatening. First of all, nobody's saying the pain is in your head, and I can absolutely get very deep in explaining the brain science as to [00:06:00] why it's not. And when you understand, okay, this isn't so alien like, I get it.

I have had a stress, headache, whatever it is, that's my opening to say, okay, and I love Gabby, your energy so much because you say this is the chance to change your life. Mm-hmm. You say you have power, you say, let's manifest something differently. And that is exactly what I'm saying when it comes to your mental and physical health.

Ooh. The power in what you just said. I really want to even just start this conversation from that powerful place because as I shared with you in IFS, there's this theory around having the hope merchant. Yes. And you're such a hope merchant for this work because you've lived it. Yeah. You're a master in it.

And, and, and the work really recognizing the pain is a psychosomatic condition. Is that correct? Is that how you would describe it? You know, here's the thing. Yes. Yes and yes, like most things are. I spent a lot of time in the book trying to explain to people that psychosomatic has gotten a bad rap. Okay?

It gets paired with [00:07:00] hypochondria. It gets paired with making it up. So even though, yes, technically we can look into what psychosomatic means and what it basically means is we are somatizing something that has roots in our psyche, in our emotions, in our trauma. Okay. So it is technically correct, but I do steer clear of the phrase just because it can create, once again, defensiveness and confusion.

Okay, cool. That's good to know. Actually. So funny, I don't have that connection to that phrase, but I, I'm seeing it through a different lens. That's important. Thank you for that clarity. So let's just talk first. Dr. John Sarno wrote and taught his entire career on the emotional disturbances behind the pain.

Yes. And connecting to that and how through that experience of witnessing and connecting. You could have miraculous healing. Yes. I'd love to hear in your words how you would define the work of Dr. Sarno and what it has meant to you and why you've chosen to carry on his legacy in this way. So I think like you, like most people, we come by this work.

Honestly, we come by this work because we needed [00:08:00] something in ourselves. We had a place in our lives where we were suffering and we needed a solution. And whatever was working before was not working for us anymore. So I came into Dr. Sarno's office as a suffering patient. I had back problems so severe, I was really limited in my life.

I have a film, I have an MRI that shows spondylolisthesis, and so that is a abnormality of the lower spine, but it makes total sense that I would say that abnormality is the reason for my pain. So I went to Dr. Sarno after years of suffering and I was like, I. It's really funny. I wrote a novel about when my back hurts, I move left, I move right?

I lift this. Mm-hmm. It goes here, it goes here. And I'm such a type A, like a student. I was like, I am going to create this document. And I got to his office and I sort of solemnly slid it across the desk and he took it and he threw it in the garbage can. Yep. Okay. So it gives you a sense of his personality.

Totally. He was awesome. He was gruff Italian guy and his [00:09:00] lab coat down to the floor and he said to me. Doesn't matter to me when and how your back hurts. Let me give you a physical exam. Let me look at your films. And when he did, he said, go to Harvard, go to Mayo, go to Hopkins, go wherever you wanna go. No doctor will look you in the eye and say that the complexity of your pain could be caused by this structural abnormality.

It doesn't line up. It doesn't make sense. And then he explained to me the brain science behind why we suffer as humans at all. Why we have so much inflammation and muscle constriction and spasm and neuropathy. And I understood it to mean at the time I've evolved it, as you said. That we can be full of an emotion that is very unacceptable, like rage.

Okay. So women aren't allowed to feel rage because then we are hysterical and you know, shrill and men aren't allowed to feel rage because then they have anger issues and they're scary and dangerous. Mm-hmm. So human beings are not allowed to feel rage. Mm-hmm. But [00:10:00] we all have it inside of us, even though it sounds like a word that you might not even relate to as a person walking around in this world, we have it.

Now since then, I've evolved it to include a lot of different emotions. But the general theory is this, the human nervous system and brain are meant first and foremost, primary purpose to keep us alive. If we did not have the reflexive immediate knee-jerk reactions of our most primitive systems, our species would have died out.

However, the same exact reflex to protect us, let's say from a hot stove. Is the reflex that sends the pain signals when we are quote in danger emotionally. So here's a little way to explain it. Let's say you're going to a dinner with a bunch of friends and there's that girl, let's call her Jane. And she's always like a little bit mean and like she, she makes comments that are sort of.

She, she acts like it's a compliment, but it's not, and she triggers you so much [00:11:00] because it's just like, you know, in fifth grade when you moved and you were totally bullied, I'm just making up a scenario. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The dinner comes closer, you know, you get a babysitter for your kids, you're all ready to go.

You are having these feelings, but you don't really, you maybe have the tip of the iceberg, which is like, oh God, I hope she doesn't. You don't know what's bubbling underneath the childhood trauma attached. You know, you do a lot of IDF, the parts that are being aggravated and threatened. Now all of a sudden you get a migraine.

It's a half hour before you didn't cancel. You're not that person. That's a flake. You have no choice. You have to stay home. Now, I like to call that safe in the unsafest way. Yeah. Because you don't want those limitations being imposed upon you. Your brain and your nervous system feel that they have protected you from a predator, and it is astounding when you start doing the work to reverse it.
How much better you get.

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For the folks that have been following the self-help book, you know about protector parts and, and the chapter about body parts. In my book I talk about Sarno's work and you, and I really appreciate the. Brain science. Mm-hmm. That you've shared here in such a specific and simple way of the protection, right?

Yes. The word protection is the operative word. Yes. It's masking. It's almost saying, okay, I can't feel that rage. It's impermissible, right? Yes. Impermissible [00:18:00] rage, impermissible trauma by brain focus goes towards that pain. Yes. I don't have to feel that rage. Am I saying that correctly? You are. You are, and it is so.

Unconscious, this reservoir we have and so let's expand it. Yes. Rage and shame. And grief and terror. Terror. You know the, the words that we mask with, like you are having coffee with a friend and you're like, I'm super bummed out. It's fine. You could say that to a friend, but actually what's happening inside unconsciously is you have deep unheard unfelt grief.

Okay. And so you're not gonna sit down a coffee with a friend you haven't seen in two months and be like, I am in deep grief. You know, it's just not what we do as human beings. We're socialized to not inconvenience other people. Mm-hmm. With our big feelings. And what we've learned is we don't even inconvenience ourselves with our big feelings, but, you know.

Okay. So this, this is kind of funny. I [00:19:00] heard Demi Moore, um, interviewed the other day about like her huge fame in the eighties and nineties, and she said something along the lines of. I was anxious and panicked all the time because my nervous system didn't know the difference between a camera and a gun.

And that is exactly what I'm saying. We still, you know, our brains. We have hugely evolved over these, you know, millennia of being human beings. But the most primitive, protective mechanism, the brain and the nervous system, the brainstem, the reptilian brain has not changed. When there's a camera in your face and you can't take it for one more second and you feel stalked and you feel exposed.

Yeah, that's a gun. Yeah, that's a saber-tooth tiger. Yeah. And so if a panic attack keeps you in the house, keeps you away, your brain and your nervous system, start developing these neuro pathways for pain and panic. Yes. Because it is seen as protective and [00:20:00] only we can undo those neural pathways and rewrite them.

How do we undo the neural pathways that keep us stuck in our pain? So the first thing to do is realize what's happening. So I often say that my work has three facets. In the most simplistic terms, believe do the work and patience and kindness for yourself. They sound really simple, but each of them obviously needs to be unpacked, believe, do the work, and patience and kindness for yourself.

For yourself. Okay? So under the umbrella of believe is like. First of all, we need to know this is going on. Most of us don't. Most of us just think I have a migraine disorder, or I have IBS, or I have back pain that no matter what happens, you know, it moves around and I can't get rid of it or pelvic pain.

So many women are coming to me now with horrible pelvic pain diagnoses like IC and vul. So embarrassing, so hard to talk about. And long covid. And do those women with the pelvic pain often come to you also with sexual trauma? [00:21:00] Often? Yeah. Not always. Yeah. But often it is really related. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, you look at in long covid, I just have to mention long covid because it is such a global crisis.

And the two things that are often said about long covid is we have no idea why it's happening and we have no solution. And I'm like screaming here from the rafters, like, no, I know exactly why it's happening. And there's a solution that's so profound. The last bit of every chapter is someone else's human story told in their own words.

And we decided to include two long covid stories because the severe symptoms are so extraordinary and the recoveries are so extraordinary when this brain science is sorted out and the nervous system can move from fight or flight to rest and repair. Do you, so you're suggesting in this work that the long covid is a result of.

A repressed emotional state. Yes. So essentially long covid, and by the way, this is pretty much universally accepted and embraced. Long covid has caused [00:22:00] dysregulated nervous system. So people are saying that's what it is, but they're saying, we don't understand why it perpetuates, because obviously you don't have covid anymore.

You're safe now. And they're saying there is no solution. I know exactly why it perpetuates because once the brain is stuck in this loop of pain and fatigue and brain fog and all the things that are happening with long covid, until there is an interruption, until there is a lowering of this emotional reservoir and an understanding of what's going on, it's just gonna keep going.

Like any learned behavior, the brain naturally seeks familiarity. The brain will seek a familiar hell. Before it will allow for an unfamiliar possibility. Yeah. You know, I lived for so many years with chronic gastro conditions, so I couldn't keep any weight on. Always you'd be called IBS, it'd be called gastritis, it'd be called.

And yes, these were all true diagnosis, right? Of course. Like I had gastritis, it was like inflamed inside. I had to take PPIs or whatever I had to do, or I had [00:23:00] a SIBO and all these things. Yeah. But really what I had was repressed trauma. Yes. And it wasn't until I actually remembered the trauma and started to address the root cause condition mm-hmm.

That now I'm free from gastro issues. So can you explain that to everybody? What, what happened there? Yes. So the first thing I wanna say, 'cause I think this really helps people, especially, I'm always listening to myself as a newcomer. I agree. Because I'm always trying to say, what would I think if I was suffering?

And I heard Nicole say this. So the first thing I wanna say about that is you have the inflammation, it's happening in your body. There have been people who have come to me with ankles, with hands, swollen like a baseball. It's happening in your body. So the question is, why are the signals firing the brain?

And the nervous system are the reason you feel anything. Okay? So if you have inflammation in your gut, you have inflammation in your gut. So there's no part of this just because it came from repressed emotions where we're dismissing the fact that yes, you have an inflamed gut and you're living with that, and it sucks, [00:24:00] and it's really hard and painful and all the things.

So having said that, another thing that I think helps people, because I didn't know this until I learned it. Is when you put a finger on a hot stove and you feel the burn, the pain. I used to think, and I think many people think you're feeling pain from your finger, right? You've hurt the nerves and you're feeling pain from your finger.

It's not actually true. You put your finger on the hot stove, the nerves in your finger, send a message to your brain, and the message says the sensory environment has changed. Something's gone on down there. We're in danger. Then the brain sends the signals back to the finger that says, ouch, ouch, ouch.

Move it. Take it out. Right? That's exactly what's happening in chronic conditions. Mm. So we are in a situation where the emotional reservoir is up to here. That involves childhood, it involves daily life, and it involves our personalities. I imagine your community is similar to mine. A lot of people that are perfectionistic.

People [00:25:00] pleaser hold themselves to sometimes impossible standards always wanna be seen as good. We call that a goodest. Maybe not everyone, but I, I mean, I know I'm recovering from a lot of those conditions. And so that is another input into the reservoir is that your personality is the lens through which you literally experience everything, right?

Yeah. Everything happens to you, happens to you. Mm-hmm. And so here we are walking through life with these personalities. We're dealing with daily life. Our kids, our partners, our money, our body image, our self-worth, our parents, right? We got that. And then of course, like stuff like Covid and you know, geopolitics and whatever else is crazy.

And then we have our childhood. Here's the thing with the childhood, it's not like you need to solve all your childhood trauma, but when we start investigating this reservoir and doing the journal speak to put a lale in and dump it out, you start to realize that. Solving problems. It's about knowing that they're there.

So if I know that I am [00:26:00] ultra sensitive, let's say, to being left out, because I moved a lot as a child and I was always making new friends, and I was always the new kid, and then, you know, you're left out a lot. When I'm in an adult situation and I start to feel really, really threatened, I can pause. I'm a big fan of pressing the pause and saying.

Is this actually this big a deal or is that my childhood stuff triggering me back to a time where I was really powerless. Yeah. And really sad. And really afraid. So all of this is the work? Yeah. Is the do the work. So once you have marinated the material on belief and studied the brain science, and I spent a ton of time, the whole first third of the book is mindset, brain science, and dealing with resistance.

Just so people really are prepared to do the work, then doing the work is, my signature tool is called Journal Speak, as you know, as you practice. Yes. So I wanna talk about journal speak. Yes. Yes. So do you wanna, do you wanna go there yet, or, well, the first thing I wanna talk is you talk about the house being on fire.

Yes. And I want, when you're referring to chronic pain, so I wanna go there and then I wanna talk about journal speak. Okay. No, no, no. Good, [00:27:00] good, good. It's a good one. So a great metaphor for this chronic pain is the house is on fire and the house is equipped with a fire alarm. So because the house is on fire, the alarm goes off and the alarm is screaming.

It's loud, it's obtrusive. It's trying to get your attention because the alarm is not the problem, but the alarm is an indication that there's a problem. So the alarm is going, it's screaming. The fire company gets there. Now, I want you to picture what would happen if the fire company trained their hoses at the alarm.

It's kind of logical that they might do so. It's screaming. It's the problem, right? It's the thing that's getting their attention. And if they did, we all know the fire would consume the house. We would never be able to take care of it. But if we wanted the alarm to go off really, and we understood the process, just take the hoses and put them on the fire.

The fire goes out, the alarm goes off. Naturally the alarm is attached to the fire. So your migraines, your fibromyalgia, your fatigue, your [00:28:00] anxiety, your panic, your OCD, your back pain, neck pain, shoulder pain. What else do I have to mention? IBS, they are the alarm. They are screaming, they are getting your attention.

They are grabbing focus, but they are not the problem. They are an indication that there is a problem. And so when we spend our lives chasing specialist after specialist, going to the headache doctor, and then the gastro, and then the ortho, and you know, the way we live because it's the only way we know we are dousing the fire alarm.

But the fire is our stored trauma and our repressed emotional world. And when we turn the hoses in the right direction with all the right energy and guidelines and tools, what happens, which is the best, and I know you experienced it in your own life, is people will write to me and be like, Nicole, you're never gonna believe it.

And I go. Try me. Yeah, try me, try me. And they say I had migraines for 15 years. I've been doing your work for, I never put a timeline, but [00:29:00] X number of weeks, months. I used to have 15 migraines a month. Now I have two. And last week, you know, I didn't get one at all. And I say yes, because the alarm is only gonna go off if there's a fire.

Once the fire starts being reduced and reduced, which is this repressed emotional reservoir, the alarm is not necessary. The alarm is only an indication of the problem. That's right. And now you have a tool. You have a tool, a life changing tool that's changed my life for healing. Chronic pain. Yes. You have a tool for healing chronic pain.

Tell us what it's okay. Well, as I said, there are three legs of the stool. Believe, do the work in patience and kindness for yourself. And as with any stool, without the three legs, it will not stand. Mm-hmm. So yes, we're gonna talk about doing the work, but do understand. That it really isn't all that effective to do the work if you're not acknowledging also the other legs of the stool.

So we'll talk about self-compassion in a moment. I know that you've obviously discussed this in your world before because it's so essential. So many people just forget about it and [00:30:00] leave it to the side. And we've talked about the belief, which is in addition to learning the brain science, I really think marinating in the stories.

Marinating in the material. My podcast, which I've had since 2018, has hundreds of stories called The Cure for Chronic Pain. If people wanna check it out, hundreds of stories of people from all walks of life that are you. We are so much more alike than we are different. Yeah. And those stories carry the message of recovery.

And so that's another thing that people really do need. But in terms of doing the work, it's gonna sound too simple to be true. And as in anything recovery, it is simple, but it is not easy. Hmm. You will resist it. It's hard. But I created a tool called journal speak at my own darkest moment. I was in terrible chronic pain.

I was told by Dr. Sarno about this theory. I understood the science. And he said, you need to bring your repressed emotional world to the consciousness. And I said, how is that gonna help [00:31:00] me to like know all these terrible, horrible things that I think and feel? And he said. Because you can know them. You kind of think they'll kill you, but they won't kill you.

But your nervous system really thinks they're gonna kill you. And so if you want this chronic alarm to stop ringing, you need to simply know. When I used to lecture with Dr. Sarno at NYU, people would raise their hands all the time and say, yeah, I get it. But like. I can't put my kids up for adoption, rob a bank, leave my partner.

Like I can't change my life. And these things cause me stress. How am I supposed to live without my back pain? My migraines And Dr. Sarno would stand up and he would say, and it's really funny 'cause he wouldn't say exactly this, but this is the way I've translated it. You can still have your shitty life, but you don't have to have your shitty life with migraines.

Yes. You know, like you don't have to change your life. And if you choose to change your life, that's totally on you. The only reason you have the symptom and the alarm is going off is because it's repressed and it's because it's repressed and because you don't [00:32:00] feel it, your nervous system goes well. If it's not safe to feel that, then obviously it's dangerous here.

Okay? Right? Yep. Okay. So he explained to me that the best way to bring the unconscious conscious is to journal. And I was kind of like, I have such debilitating pain, I can't put my kids in the car. You're telling me that I need to write my feelings. And he said. Well, you would be surprised. And so I decided I was going to give my full effort.

That's my personality. And I was quote journaling and it felt like a whole lot of nothing. I was playing my tapes, I was complaining about the same things I've always complained about, and I'm like, there is no way this is gonna help me. And just so happens on one fateful afternoon, I put the topic on the top of the page, motherhood.

Now, at the time I had two children. I now have three, and they were one and three, and now they're 22, 20 and 17. So this was a minute ago, and I start playing my tapes, two kids in diapers, two kids in cribs. [00:33:00] It's really, I'm tired, you know, all the things. And I had a moment that was an absolute spiritual awakening.

I had a moment where a voice came in that was my voice, but wasn't my voice. It was a new voice. It was my highest self. It was my deepest knowing, whatever you wanna call it. And the voice said, you're lying. And I looked at the voice and I said, I'm not lying. I do have two kids, you know, but I, I heard it and it said, this is not the darkness.

This is not the truth that is going to relieve your pain. And I kind of felt it rising the way one does when you don't wanna be sick. And I let it come. And the line, the first line of journal speak, ever penned that came out of me was. I hate being a mother, and I've chills every time. God, I've told this story so many times.

Yeah, but it doesn't lose its power for me because it was so out of nowhere. It so wasn't what I thought I was thinking or feeling, but I, instead of denying it, instead of re repressing it again, this weird, odd, dark [00:34:00] voice, I replaced my fear with curiosity. Which is my whole mantra than many other people's 'cause everything replace my fear with curiosity.

Self energy up. Yep. Mm-hmm. Replace your skepticism. Replace your certainty. Yes. With curiosity. Very helpful. And I said, okay. I hate being a mother. What's going on here? Mm. And I just went and I was like, I hate this. I'm doing it wrong. I had the wrong children.

They don't look enough like me. Like really petty little weird things were coming out of me and it transformed it. It really moved very quickly. This is the beautiful thing about journal speak. It doesn't stay true, but it's the portal through which you can get to what you need to get to. So I dumped on parenting and my kids and I was like, wait a second.

I hate a 2-year-old. What's going on here? And then I really went at my parents. I hate my parents. They made so many horrible decisions. You know, I had to move all the time. I was always left out, you know, blah, blah, all that. And then, my God, did the self-loathing begin? I hated myself. What are you weak?

What's wrong with you? Can't anyone be [00:35:00] a parent? You can't do this. You're such a loser. I. Where I landed, Gabby was someplace where if you had put a gun to my head and a lie detector test on me, I would not have known I felt this. Hmm. And this is what is magical, and this is what I'm gonna invite everybody to do for their own lives.

Okay? Which is something occurred to me that I could not deny. And it was this when I was about 10 or 11 years old, lonely, sad. My parents had a difficult marriage. We struggled with money. I made a very quiet pact with myself, which was one day you will grow up. You'll get out from under these people and their decisions, and you are gonna have the perfect family, and you are gonna have the perfect relationship and you're gonna have beautiful children and they're gonna look just like you, and they're gonna smile up at you and you will heal the wounds of me.

This little girl. I had no idea that I felt that way, but because I started to realize through my journal speak that I did. The pressure I was putting on two toddlers to heal the pain of my childhood. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh [00:36:00] God. Yeah. Anyone who has toddlers knows. Yeah. That ain't never gonna happen. Not gonna work.

Yeah. And it just blew open the doors of my consciousness. Mm. And I said, my goodness. This is why, this is why this is felt so unsatisfying. Because the thing it was trying to solve for solve will never be solved for, and I'm not even present. Right. I'm back in some like childhood swirl of sadness and grief and, and fear.

And so I was able to rewrite that whole entire thing. And when I did arrive there, and this is very important that people understand, 'cause I know Gabby said at the top of the episode, there is a possibility of miraculous healing. It doesn't happen for everyone. It doesn't happen every time. And certainly it's fine if it doesn't.

I. I woke up the next morning and my back pain was 80% gone, never to return. Yep. And that was 20 years ago. Yep. And then I went Ham journal, speak wise. Yeah. On everything in my life. Yeah. Yeah. I just took the lists and the stuff that I had journaled about. I was like, no, no, no. That won't do. And I just, it [00:37:00] is the voice of a five-year-old.

It is the voice of the inner child. It kicks, it screams, it wins every argument, but it is astonishing.
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I, I do think that there's, there's process and there's learning, but it is actually simpler than we think. Right? It's. Letting these little children inside of us who have been exiled and suppressed and shut down and shamed and not even acknowledged to have the rant that they need to have the tantrum on the page to let it out.

Mm-hmm. To let it out. Yes. Because we know what the relief is, the somatic relief. Mm-hmm. From having a tantrum. My God. You come out of that or just like letting that feeling out. Yes. You come out of it new. You come out of it free. Yes. And so it's a daily practice. Yeah. Of just letting that rant happen. And the it speak.

And if we were just two women who were like, this is a great practice and I feel better [00:43:00] and I feel like happier, that would still be great. Yeah. But what's astonishing about it, if when done properly and consistently it re relieves chronic pain? Mm-hmm. Like this is the thing that blows my mind. Even as I, you know, 20 plus years in, I'm living it every day.

The body, you know, Bessel VanDerKolk tells us the body keeps the score. The body keeps the score. But you can change the rules. Yeah, you can change the game. Yeah. The score can change and that is the thing that I'm most interested in helping people understand. There is a solution. You can live in the solution by properly understanding how to embrace all three legs of the stool and do this work for yourself.

So I have a selfish question. Yeah. The same question I had probably in 2020 when we first spoke. So you were helping me, guided me to do journal speak with my TMJ, and I did it for 365 days and it really helped, and it was at a time, actually, I was very much in my deep, deep, deep trauma recovery. Mm-hmm. I just remembered sexual trauma from my [00:44:00] childhood was 36 at the time that I remember now.

I was close to 39 at the time that I met you. Mm-hmm. I was deep in the, the recovery and, and working on the TMJ and I kept doing journal speak and then it got better. It really got better. I still have the TMJI have you sitting next to me. What do you want me to do? Tell me what to do, Nicole. So would you say, Gabby, that you would identify as someone who is like dealing with the last 10%, like the last vestiges?

It's literally what I say. I literally will say this is the final frontier. The TMJ, like you just took the words outta my mouth. The TMJ is my final frontier. Okay. I feel so peaceful. I feel so good inside. It's at night when I'm sleeping. It's like doing pushups while I sleep. Okay. It's the final frontier.

So I have a question that's gonna sound like a silly question. Do you want it to go away? A really nice question. Thank you. Y yes. And I know why you're asking. I, I, I do want it to go away, but I know that it's had [00:45:00] a reason and agenda for sticking around. So there are two things to consider when we're dealing with the final frontier.

Okay. The first, I can't believe you just nailed the final frontier like that. That's exactly what It's okay. Yes, go ahead. The first is, why is it here? And do I have some maybe quiet subconscious knowing that if it's here, I won't bypass some part of me that is looking to be heard. I won't just go on with my peaceful, happy life.

Just leave whomever in the dust. So that's one thing that could easily be keeping it around and embracing that understanding with compassion is the first step in being brave enough to invite that conversation to happen. Maybe a conversation you didn't even know needs to happen between you and you. So that's the first thing.

The second thing, which is even a little trickier, is desire to be different than we are. So the desire for something to go away. Yeah. Is read by your [00:46:00] nervous system as fear, okay? Because think about it, if you need something to go away, if you're like, oh, I want this to go away, the only message the nervous system can hear is, we're not okay.

I'm not okay if this doesn't go away. I want this. I have urgency around this. Urgency is fear. Desire to be different than we are is fear. And so what if, and this is a wild notion, no matter. How this goes, it's okay for you. It comes, it goes. It does pushups. Maybe it hangs out with me for the rest of my life.

Maybe it's just a space where there's so much human feeling, there's so much passion within me that I need somewhere to put it. That's where it's gonna live. Welcome TMJ. Get in the back. I'm sure you've heard Elizabeth Gilbert the way she talks to fear, right? Get in the back. You can come on the ride, but you can't map the route.

You can't pick the snacks, you can't drive the car. The reason I say that is not 'cause it's gonna last forever. I always say to [00:47:00] people, we're just tricking. You know, the reason radical acceptance is actually the answer for the final frontier is because it removes the urgency, it removes any need to be different than you are.

What you're saying to your nervous system is if it comes, if it goes, I'm releasing, I'm releasing the need to be any different, I am just gonna be here. And what's kind of amazing and it's like a kind of a little bit of a hack. It oftentimes releases. Okay, so it's those two. It's those two things. Okay. So the first one, tune back into the first one for a moment.

The first one was, there's still the part Yes. Part of me that's holding onto it. Yes. The things that needs to be there. Yes. Okay. Yeah, and I've been doing the check-in, my check-in with it. And your work with it and journaling with it. Yes. I feel very subconsciously that that part of me is like the final frontier is like.

We're, we're ready, let go. But this is the way to still hold on to a little bit of protection here. Yeah. I like what you were [00:48:00] saying, and as you were talking about the. Acceptance. I felt resistance. Hmm. Yes. I really did. I felt resistance of not necessarily fear like that it can't go away either. Maybe, maybe unconsciously a little bit, but the resistance for whatever reason, I felt a little bit like, if it comes, if it goes, I don't know.

I don't want it to, I, I I want it to go away. Away. You want it to go? Yeah. So here's what I'll say. Resistance is completely natural. Yeah. Because people think acceptance equals agreement. Yep. And so when I say to people like, whisper, you know, it's not really gonna stay. Yeah. The, the thing that I think you have to realize is because acceptance doesn't equal agreement, all acceptance is, is when you stop fighting everything and everyone, I actually just got, I tuned into something too.

What I heard just now inside was. If I accept this, it could go away, and if it goes away, I'm not safe. Okay, [00:49:00] so now we're getting to the core of it for you. So we're having a little real time heal here. That's what I sometimes do on the podcast. I'm taking advantage of this moment with you. We're bringing, we bring someone on and we like literally do a therapy session cold on air.

So, okay, so what I'll say is that, and I'll do it through the lens of IFS because it's such a familiar lens for you and your community. There is a part, there is an exile in there, and she has been holding space as TMJ. Call her TMJ. She's adorable and she feels like she can be seen and heard because there's a very physical way that she is expressed, and maybe because she's had this role, you have not needed to actually go and sit with her, particularly because she's had her expression and she's fine with it.

She's fine with. She actually is occupying a really important place in your life. She's your only chronic pain left. Yes. I mean, my God, she's the queen. She is the queen. And so really I think it's about slowing down, acknowledging this and [00:50:00] then saying, if I want to allow her to be in this space of my TMJ, she's allowed.

And if one day I say I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired, you know, I don't really wanna feel this anymore. She can be equally expressed in another way. And I can go and sit with her. One of the things I specifically do with people at my Omega retreats with people at any sort of events that I take people through processes is we do inner child work, and the key to inner child work is not necessarily affirmations and you're gonna be okay.

It's listening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's saying, I just wanna know what it was like to be you. I'm not gonna tell you it's gonna be okay. Because it's not, you know, there's no such thing as, okay, we're living a human life. What I'm gonna say is, who are you? 'cause I'm fascinated, and I just wanna know you and I do a journal speak practice, and I invite you to do it where you could go to that part and say, I know you're being represented in my TMJ.

You can stay as long as you need, [00:51:00] but I also wanna hear you here. Okay. And, and so, so no one's taking anything away from you. Let's just sit and talk for a moment. I'm not gonna say a word. And then you do your journal speak and you say, tell me what it's like to be you, and then let her speak. I don't even think either of us could possibly know what she's gonna say 'cause that's the process as it unfolds. Yep, that's right. Right, right. All. There has been resistance. Even, like I said, I did the 365 days and I felt so much relief and then did so much more and it felt better and better and better, and the gut felt better. And, and then Final Frontier, it's like the, the holding, the holding on.

But it's no accident that you're here right now because I. I would like to keep my teeth. Yeah, that's, they look great. That's where it, they, that's where it takes us, you know? That's where it takes us. Mm-hmm. So, first of all, the book, I mean, I'm so thrilled with this book. I just, I, I'm so excited that you've put this work out now in this new way, and you have such devoted students.

You know, anyone that I know that follows you is just like, they rely on you. Mm-hmm. And you've very much [00:52:00] changed and healed their lives. And or they've done the work. Right. But you've shared the story in the container. Yeah. You've been the container. And so I really wanna recommend everybody to go read MINDBODY and to really take your time with it.

Just much, much like you just gave me that advice. Take your time. Go slow. Don't force it. Mm-hmm. Don't try to make the pain go away. Just be in that compassionate witnessing and yes, be free around it. And I want you to leave us with any last message around the intention of the book, the mission for the book, anything you want us to know about what's possible.

You know what I'll say, Gabby, is that for so many years, so first, the first 18 years I was in private practice literally seeing one person at a time. Within that time, I wrote my first book and I started doing the YouTube channel and the podcast and teaching and speaking. Mm-hmm. This book, mind Your Body, is.

An aggregate of 20 years of best practices. So I'm just so excited about it. And I mean that, I know people come and they talk about books on podcasts all the time. I like go to bed at night with a smile on my face [00:53:00] because I'm proud of it. Yeah. I did it. I, I'll be honest with you, you wouldn't be sitting here, I wouldn't have invited you on the show if I didn't know that because I, I, I really, we don't do a lot of interviews on the show.

Mm-hmm. And when we do, it's with people that, that literally live and breathe and know mm-hmm. That their work works. Yes. Thank you. I appreciate that. And so basically, the reason I want people to read it is it is a toolkit for living. If this conversation lights you up, if this conversation makes you curious or if this conversation pisses you off, whatever.

This book will open the door and answer the questions that are rolling around in your mind. Yep. Yep. And it will give you an a complete toolkit, like we can talk about journal speak. We've both done it, but it really is something that is best done when you understand it, when you know exactly the mindset to go into it, when you know the process.

And then the third leg of the stool. Why is it important to have self-compassion? I really think a life without a self-compassion practice is like bailing out a boat with a hole in the bottom. Mm. It just keeps filling up. We are so unkind to [00:54:00] ourselves. Mm-hmm. And there are ways to rewrite that. Ways that are doable and tangible and concrete.

They're all in the book. So yes, the book, because it is. Everything I got. Yeah. You know, for, it's everything I got for now. It's everything I got for now. And if you are interested in audiobook, I read it myself. Yes. So I can read and your voice is so sweet. I can you and speak to you. And I guess the overall message I want to leave everybody with from my heart, from my experience, from Gabby, from the thousands and thousands of people around the world that have their lives completely back is you have so much more power than you realize.

To affect your physical and emotional health. We are a society that gives away our power to pills, to doctors, to alternative treatments. And it's okay. It doesn't mean there's not a place for all of that, but the spoiler is the real expert is you. Mm-hmm. And this book gives you back your power, does you, your work, your book.

It gives you back your power. [00:55:00] It really, really does. Yeah. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. And I'm so grateful that you. So committed and devoted in the hope merchant for this work because it's also just even in the presence of the way you speak about it, can have a quantum healing for somebody. Mm-hmm.

Cause they can see your conviction and your living proof of it. Yes. So I, I appreciate you and my jaw is relaxing as we talk. Nice. I notice myself wanting to yawn and that's a good sign. That's, whenever I'm in therapy and stuff, I start yawning. Yeah. And so I didn't wanna yawn looking like I was tired with this conversation, but No, I, I feel it, I feel like starting to, starting to move.

Just acceptance. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And just, and just being in the conversation. Yeah. Yeah. I love you. Love you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Everybody go grab your copy of Mind Your Body by the cul Sachs. I love you.

If you made it to the end of this episode, that means you're truly committed to miracles. I'm really proud of you. If you wanna get more Gabby, tune in every [00:56:00] Monday for a new episode. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss any of the guidance or special bonus episodes. Your experience of this show means a lot to me, so I really wanna welcome you to leave an honest review and you can follow me on social media at Gabby Bernstein.

And if you wanna get in on the action, sign up for a chance to be Dear Gabby, live@deargabby.com. See you next week.

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode. Hi there, Gabby here. This podcast is intended to educate, inspire, and support you on your personal journey towards inner peace.

I'm not a psychologist or a medical doctor and do not offer any professional health or medical advice. If you are suffering from a psychological or medical condition, please seek help from a qualified health [00:57:00] professional.