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unlocking self-discovery: navigating the enneagram with gabby bernstein and dr. deborah egerton

Today, I have a very special guest joining me – the renowned Enneagram expert Dr. Deborah Egerton. Dr. Egerton brings a wealth of psychological knowledge and insights to our discussion. The Enneagram is a truly powerful tool for personal growth and self-discovery. Together, we’ll explore each of the nine Enneagram types, uncovering their unique strengths, challenges and paths to growth.

I’ve seen firsthand how understanding your Enneagram type can be incredibly transformative. It sheds light on your deepest fears, desires and motivations. With this awareness, you gain the power to break free from limiting patterns and step into your highest potential.

As Dr. Egerton explains, the Enneagram combines ancient spiritual wisdom with modern psychology. It reveals the blueprint of your soul – that core energy that shapes how you think, feel and interact with the world.

Whether you’re new to the Enneagram or a long-time enthusiast, this episode promises to be enlightening. Dr. Egerton and I will share practical tips for using the Enneagram to improve your relationships, career, and overall well-being. We’ll also dive into the spiritual dimensions of this system and how it aligns with universal principles of energy and transformation.

So get ready for some major “aha” moments and soul-stirring revelations. By the end of this episode, you’ll have a clearer understanding of yourself and a roadmap for personal evolution.

Remember, the Universe is always conspiring to help you grow. The Enneagram is a sacred tool for self-realization and I’m honored to be your guide. Let’s do this!

In this episode you’ll learn:

  • The Nine Enneagram personality types
  • The light and dark side of each Enneagram
  • How understanding the Enneagram can help improve relationships with others
  • How to find your own personal Enneagram number
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This podcast is intended to educate, inspire, and support you on your personal journey towards inner peace. I am not a psychologist or a medical doctor and do not offer any professional health or medical advice. If you are suffering from any psychological or medical conditions, please seek help from a qualified health professional.

dear gabby #203 Apr 22, 2024 emotional wellbeing

what’s your enneagram type? unlock your soul blueprint for major growth

[00:00:00] The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi there, Gabby here. This podcast is intended to educate, inspire, and support you on your personal journey towards inner peace. I'm not a psychologist or a medical doctor, and do not offer any professional health or medical advice. If you are suffering from a psychological or medical condition, please seek help from a qualified health professional.

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Hey there, welcome to Dear Gabby. I'm your host, Gabby Bernstein, and if you landed here, it is absolutely no accident. It means that you're ready to feel good and manifest a life beyond your wildest dreams. Let's get started. Welcome back, my friends. O M Giggity G, you are going to love, love, [00:03:00] love today's show.

I sat down with my beautiful friend, Dr. E. She's an Enneagram expert. Now what the heck is the Enneagram? In short, it's this super powerful personality system that can be used in so many different ways for personal growth and self discovery. And let me tell you something. It's amazing. It's amazing. in relationships.

So I have lots of valuable relationships in my life. I have my son, I have my husband, and I have a team of people that I work with. Understanding their Enneagram type, their sort of like a personality type, has saved my butt. over and over. Mine is like a joke. I'm an eight on the Enneagram. It's like the full speed ahead.

The person who walks 10 feet ahead of everybody else. It's usually the CEO or the, it's the challenger. It's the person that's just, you know, ready to just make stuff happen. The entrepreneur. It is so me and it is so helpful when other people in my life know my Enneagram type. [00:04:00] And then knowing other people's Enneagram types, I can be more respectful, more compassionate, more understanding, less aggressive because that is my type.

And so today on the show, Dr. E and I are going to break down what the Enneagram is, give you this full understanding of the psychological side of the Enneagram, its benefits, how you can use it. And really just for newbies and enthusiasts alike, this is a journey that you're going to want to go on with me to empower yourself to get to know your own Enneagram type and how it works.

It works in relation to other people. Plus, I give you a link in this episode to a quiz where you can get your own Enneagram type and start working with it. Oh my god, oh my god, get excited. This is such a good show. Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy. Dr. E in the house, Dr. E in the house. So Dr. E, you are here for the first time on the Dear Gabby podcast and the first Dear Gabby podcast where we've ever discussed [00:05:00] the Enneagram.

Mm hmm. Because other than one mutual friend, you would be the number one person that I would have here talking about the Enneagram. Thank you. Truly. Truly. Yeah. So welcome. And I know that maybe some of my listeners know what the Enneagram is. A lot of them probably don't. So I think we have to start with what is the Enneagram and how does it serve us?

The Enneagram is a. personality typology that identifies nine different archetypes of the personality and One of the things that I like to share with people, you know, it combines ancient spiritual traditions with modern psychology. The symbol is very old. It predates Plato. We really don't know where it originated, but the personality typology is more recent.

And it came to the Western world in the seventies. What's fascinating about the Enneagram is that There are [00:06:00] nine different energies, and all nine of those energies live within each of us. But one of those energies dominates. And once you find your dominant energy, it's like finding the blueprint to your soul.

Totally. Yeah. It's the operating manual that you wish you'd been born with. And I'm laughing because then you find other people that have your dominant energy and you're like, Oh my God, you're so me. Like our publisher, Reed Tracy is an eight and I'm an eight and we like, we'll sit at a dinner table and we will just wink and kick each other under the table being like, ah, eightness.

Because we've had such similarities. That's the fun part. So what are the nine different personalities? They reside in three different centers. We have head types, heart types, and body types. You and I, Gabby, happen to be body types. Eight, nine, and one are the body types. So the eight is the challenger. The nine is the peacemaker.

The [00:07:00] one is the idealist. A lot of people refer to it as a reformer. That was a language that some people use. But as a one, I recognize myself as an idealist. Yes, you are a one, yeah. And it's the heart types of two, three, and four. And the twos are the givers and the helpers. The threes are the achievers, the ambitious ones.

It has been. And the fours are what we sometimes call the romantics or the creative. That's Josh, right? Josh, you're a four? Go look it up now. We need to know what Josh is. Okay? Josh is looking it up. And then our head types are 5, 6, and 7. And the 5's are the investigators, people who really like to investigate and go deep.

The 6's are our loyalists, people who I say are the last human standing. Yes. And then the 7's are the enthusiasts. The ones that I'm a 7 and an 8. I'm an 8 first and then a 7. You've got that 7 wing flapping. Yes. Yes. Challenger, enthusiast. Yes. Big time. Yeah. Okay, so there's the body, the heart, and the head.[00:08:00]

And how do those three parts play into the different personalities? It's interesting because it's important to understand that we have three centers of intelligence. For so long, we have operated. Really, from one third of our being, we operate in our head space, or some people are very led only by their emotions, or some people are prone to living from a instinctual sort of gut place without really thinking things through or feeling that.

That's the body. Exactly. I could say that definitely not, that, that is not true. Previous Gabby, yes. Yeah, Gabby pre work. That's correct. Yeah, it's really important to look at that, but why would you want to be one third of a person? Correct. There's the wisdom of your mind. There's the wisdom of your heart and your emotions, and there is the wisdom of your instinctive and intuitive center.

So, you want [00:09:00] to align those three. And what I'm teaching people to do is to look for the full body yeses in your life. And a full body yes comes when your mind comes up with a thought. You filter it through your heart, and then your gut says, yeah, that's it. Thought, heart, gut. Yeah. That's it. And then when you have that, then you know that you have put yourself on a road that you can actually go.

You know, navigate very comfortably or sometimes uncomfortably because the full body yes may be outside of your comfort zone. Oh, yeah. Very well. Could be. But if it's a full body yes, you can still trust it. Exactly. Cool. That's actually a great exercise now because I sometimes can make those sort of gut reaction decisions quickly and just start changing things overnight.

My whole team is going to just be like, Oh God. And so if I have that check in of. Head, [00:10:00] heart, gut. And particularly for you, Gabby, when I think about, read your books, and I know you, worked with you, you're intuitive center is very strong. I have seen you just click into something. Something rises for you, and you're ready to move on that.

And if it's going from your gut, but then filtered through your heart. And then your head puts it together in the way that it needs to flow, then you've got magic. So it's okay to go from gut to head. I think that makes sense for me because it's usually coming from the gut. It really is, as you said. So I can just then filter it.

need to filter it. Okay. Gorgeous. I love it. Okay. So as we start to get to know these different personality types, and we can do that through a quiz. You've got a quiz on your website. And that would be DeborahEgerton.com. DeborahEgerton.com. You can go take the quiz. We'll put this [00:11:00] quiz in the show notes.

And that quiz is a short quiz. So you might want to take a little further with the Enneagram quiz. I tell people all the time, a quiz is not the definitive way of determining your Enneagram type. Yep. Yep. It may get you in the right neighborhood, but you really want to do some reading. That's why I wrote Enneagram Made Easy.

Yeah. So that you can find yourself. really in ways that are deeper than just the questions that are asked. Bad answers in bad answers, results, our ability or our capacity to really be honest with ourselves. I laugh because I say, if you have a multiple choice question and it says, I am. Kind and giving. I am mean and stingy.

It's amazing how everybody becomes kind and giving. Totally. Totally.

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The thing that I found so beneficial about the Enneagram was not just what I learned about myself, but also what I learned about my husband. And you've been really generous to, to guide me. my team at one point and my husband and I, so he's a 3 and that 3 ness really is like, really needs to discover and unpack every option before they can make that final decision, is that a correct analysis of a 3?

It's a very good analysis and Just to understand it at a deeper level, threes do not want to fail. Failure is their nemesis. So what you're seeing [00:16:00] when he's unpacking everything to look at it, it's because he wants it to be the best. He wants to win. He wants to make sure that if it goes out into the world, it is excellent.

That's right. Yeah. Good match for me because I'm just like, ah, let's go. But what I found that was so fascinating was that what recognizing that in him allowed me to one, give him space to figure it out. Two, have compassion for the part of him that's, I just want to get it right. And then three, just celebrate how great a match that is for my eightness because eights are like juggernauts.

We're like, let's bust through. Let's do it right now. Why didn't it happen yesterday? I don't believe an eight really is a perfectionist because how could you be? You're not going to move that fast. Right. But eights and threes are CEOs and entrepreneurs, right? Right. And this is a very eight. country. Eight and three.

Eight is big country. Highly valued. Yeah. Yes, exactly. And it's a joke. We, Tracy and I, we celebrate our eightness at the table. We're [00:17:00] both like the CEOs. Zach's actually the CEO of our business. Having that threeness, I started to understand it and then celebrate it. It's a beautiful thing when you do that.

And I really, am on a mission to get people to understand that the Enneagram is more than learning about your type and putting yourself in a box. What it really is a celebration of nine unique energies that, like I said, reside within each of us. We have all nine. That's what it takes to make a complete human being.

But one of those energies is the strongest. However, If someone gave you nine incredibly beautifully wrapped gifts, and you choose to only open one, what a loss. Totally. You've unwrapped your eight, you've unwrapped Zach's three, and I know you've unwrapped a lot of the other ones looking at them, even with the people that you work with.

Yeah. So that you can navigate the [00:18:00] world. as successfully as possible and as lovingly as possible. Yeah. And the thing that you mentioned earlier, that is just the magic of the Enneagram is the empathy and the compassion that comes up in all of us when we understand The struggle of another energy. Yeah.

It's not the same. So we look at other people and it's like, why don't you just get with it and get it done? Eights and ones are very similar in that way. And we tend to get along very well. If you're working with a two that's trying to really help you and love you and take care of you, there's a different energy there.

When you understand how hard that two is working or how hard that three is working to make you successful. The two is my chief of staff, Jessica. Yeah, I know, Jessica. She has three in her two, but her two ness, she's just so devoted to the work [00:19:00] and her devotion is, and just hearing you speak of the two like that just melted my heart for her.

Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. Like, I could piss her off. Like, I could, oh my God. And she'll just be like, let's get it right. Let's help you. Help you. Yeah. Always trying to calm the ruck. That's really what she does. Loving you back into a healthy space. One of the most cherished relationships of my life. I often say to people, if you don't have a healthy two.

Somewhere in your life, you're kind of missing out on something that's beautiful. Yeah. But that word that I just put in front of the two. Healthy two. Healthy two. That's right. Healthy all nine Enneagram energies. Yes. Because that's the key to actually understanding the Enneagram. Yes. It's not that there's one type that's better for you than another.

It's really any type. Can do well with any type as long as you're operating at the healthier levels You're at that [00:20:00] low vibration of unhealthy And basically you're going to piss everybody off and you're not loving yourself. Yeah, my eightness really pissed a lot of people off for many years. Really my eightness was rough.

Now that's in IFS therapy. We have these many parts of who we are and in IFS, it's not about we're trying to get rid of the part. It's about helping the part become unburdened and to claim it's. valuable role in our system. The work, as you mentioned, I'm an eight that did the work, so I can celebrate my eightness now.

The work is, with the Enneagram work, is really using this information, this valuable information, to create space for these parts of us to feel more calm, to feel more at ease, to, to, and to co create. Absolutely. Yes. It works so well when you go deep. into the Enneagram and understand what you look like when you are not operating from a healthy space.

It's [00:21:00] picking up a mirror. A good analogy for me is there are times when you pick up the mirror and you look at yourself and say, Ooh, yeah, I need some work. And when you first discover the Enneagram, that's where you may find yourself. We can go around and look at all of the different descriptors of the types and say, oh yeah, I have a good personality, I like people, I do this, that, and the other, things that are very general and kind of surface level.

But if you know what you look like, When you're not operating at your best, sometimes that's where you'll find yourself in terms of your Enneagram energy.

And I like to talk about the Enneagram as energy and as nine points. The reason that I do that is because too many people get stuck in that type box.

Yeah. And that's as far as they ever get. That's right. But if you actually open it up and recognize that [00:22:00] there are nine points of energy and you have all of them in you to a greater or lesser degree, then you've opened up a world to yourself that is entirely different. And you're not going to spend your time stereotyping yourself and putting yourself in a box and boxing other people.

There you go. Yeah. Cause I think I can do the, I'm an eight, my husband's a three. You can get really into it. It's a fun dinner party conversation, which we've had many at our publishing dinners, but it is really important to recognize all of the parts of who you are and that all parts are welcome and that all parts have the desire to be serviced and nourished.

For a fun exercise, just so that the audience can get to know their different Enneagram types, or just maybe learn about the Enneagram types to maybe inquire more deeply with a quiz or with a test, would you be open to sharing, like, the light side and the dark side of each one through nine? Take a little time, but I'll see if I can do it.

Okay. I'll see if I can do [00:23:00] it. Yeah, the one is all about doing the right thing. So, at point one, you have individuals that are saying how hard is it just to do the right thing. The dark downside of the one is the right thing through whose lens. Mm. So, what may be right for the one may not necessarily be right for everyone else or anyone else.

That's right. So, the two. Mm. is about giving and receiving love. And for two. And name each one. What is the name of the two again? The two is the giver. The giver. Yeah. Got a lot of helpers in my world. And at point two, you have people who are really doing their very best to love you in the best way they know how.

And the downside of that is that They really want to receive love back and, um, sometimes it can get a little sticky when you're giving love [00:24:00] if it's not coming from a healthy space and you're looking for what you can get back. That's right. You don't get it. It can get a little ugly. Could've been it.

Exactly. Uh, at point three, we have the Achiever. Who is looking to be successful and ambitious and is doing all the things in the world that look bright and shiny and wonderful. On the downside is I'm going to make this the best. By any means possible. Yeah. Okay. So that's where it can get. Stress, anxiety.

Really, yeah. It can get very. Overriding themselves to get it right. Overriding themselves and sometimes overriding the rules, taking the shortcut to make it the best possible. Yeah. It can be. And then at four, where we have the creatives, we look at, and I have to take a moment to talk about the four because I think sometimes fours get a bad rap.

Fours tend to be. Very creative individuals and they really want to be [00:25:00] unique. They want to be in the world and be themselves and not sell out. They are the people that we call the holders of the beauty in the world because they hold that beauty at a great price to themselves. Fords tend to keep a reservoir of their negative feelings and losses and emotions so they can go right back in touch and be right back in that sad space.

So there's The downside of getting caught up in the overwhelm of the melancholy and the sadness. And that is where the creative well stems from. So I say they hold that beauty at a great cost sometimes to themselves. Just a little funny story. I say if you have a four child, sometimes you know it because if you send them to a school where they have a uniform to wear, Oh boy, the end of the day, I got to find out what my man is.

I don't think he's a four. He might be an eight. Another [00:26:00] eight. He might be an eight or a three. You'll find out. Yeah. How do I find it? Can I do the test with him or for him? Well, now with children you want to watch, observe, and let them evolve. Because I actually believe that children go through, because we have all eight energies, you might actually see a little bit of many different energies in the final formation of when you're done with this.

I'm going to ask you a few leading questions for my son because the more information I have, the better. Exactly. Okay.

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Then we have the fives who are the investigators. Upside of the five is my God, all things are connected.

They can see things in ways that those of us who are not fives cannot see the world. They don't like to
just take the shortcuts. If a five is going to do something, they want the big picture. How did it start?
Where is it now? Where's it going in the future? The downside of the five is they can get so lost in the big picture and trying to create something that is going to work, that the research, the investigation never stops. It's my father in law. Then there's a sadness because they've detached. Yeah.

Disconnected from the people. Totally. Theta fives often when what you're doing becomes more important to you than the [00:31:00] people in your world, then you need to wake up and recognize you need to raise the level of your energy to get healthy. Doctors, surgeons. Yeah. Yeah. Scientists. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I used to do a lot of training over at National Institutes of Health.

All five. Where I had all fives. Yeah. That makes sense. Just fives coming in spades. That's right. The sixes, who I call the loyalists, the sixes, the wonderful side of the six is there's no better person to interact with when you need to. Things to be prepared, you need for people to know what to do and when to do it and how to do it.

And sixes spend a lot of time actually being prepared. The downside is they're being prepared because they can always see the worst case scenario. So that worst case scenario thinking can really pull you under. And of course, if you stay in that space, then you're Once again, [00:32:00] creating a lot of anxiety for yourself and for people around you.

Anxiety is contagious. Move on to sevens, the enthusiast. I'm a close seven. I'm a seven. I'm a seven eight, yeah. So the seven is the person who just really wants to be free and happy. and can live their life from a space of moving forward and looking for the juice, the good stuff in life. Squeeze the juice out of everything.

Squeeze it on out and enjoy it. The downside is that often Sevenths cannot go near Pain and anything that feels like it's going to be painful or monotonous and is not going to bring them joy is not going to allow them to have pleasure and is not going to allow them to have their freedom. They're up and out.

Okay. Okay. And the Eight. Which is really my um, Eight. Saved Eight. Bring you around here. [00:33:00] Eight's the Challenger. The Challenger will absolutely charge that hill. Natural leaders. Yeah.

Born to conquer whatever needs to be conquered. And tough as nails. The downside is, in order to be as tough as nail, there is sometimes a wall or a thorny exterior that gets thrown up there.

And that's because The eight is trying to protect a very tender, innocent, pure heart, and doesn't want anybody to get near it. So the downside of the eight is they don't want to be vulnerable. Yep. And in order to not be vulnerable, an eight can actually become ruthless. Yep. So that's the up and down. I lived in that eight for a long time, but now I'm in a, I'm in a worthy eight now.

I am owning that fully. When you can own your own heart. worthiness. Yeah. Then that changes everything. Everything. And then finally we get to the top of the [00:34:00] Enneagram where we have the nine, the peacemaker. The upside of the nine is approachable, always looking to actually help to bring people together.

They want peace and harmony, not just for themselves, but for everyone around them as well. The downside of the nine is that because they don't like conflict and will avoid conflict, they can actually almost ghost out of their own lives. going along to get along. Yep. So whatever it is you want, I'll be okay with that.

Yeah. Because I don't want the conflict. Yeah. And then you lose track of what you really believe in, what you want for your own life. And of course, Sometimes you have to go through a conflict to get to the other side of what is really meaningful. Yes, that's right. I have my head of customer happiness is a nine.

It's just such a beautiful quality to be able to be that [00:35:00] peacemaker. And then it's really hard to get her to say any truth about what someone's performance might be or whatever, but what's really happening. So yeah, I can see that so clearly. And you did the energy of the group. In my team you did a whole gram And the the team at that time, I would say the majority of that group is no longer at the company, but at the time it was like a nine energy.

That's correct. Which was really hard for us because we wanted decision makers, and so it was interesting to be able to see that at that time, that while that nine energy was extraordinary and really soothing and really excellent humans. The way that we were working was in conflict with that. It's a beautiful thing to do with a team, with a leadership team.

Yeah, I love doing it with teams. What I really enjoy about doing it with teams is helping teams to recognize that no matter what the types are that happen to be on the team, because we have access to all nine of those energies, is actually getting them to grow and develop to bring the other energies in.

That's [00:36:00] right. because, think about it, you have two wings. So, at eight you also have access to nine and to one very easily. I think I'm an eight and a seven. I don't know what the third is. So, on the other side of your eight is nine. Oh, okay. With you, I'll just tell you later ways to begin to look at your nine wing because we have two wings and people are bi wingual, my own word there, but you can operate with both wings.

I use the analogy that your dominant energy is like the steak and the wings are like the seasoning that you put on your steak. That's why all eights don't show up exactly the same way. And there's also the subtypes, which are whether you're self prez. social or sexual one on one. So these are deeper concepts of the Enneagram.

Go deeper and deeper, yeah. And when people go deeper, they understand that. Enneagram made easy. Explore the nine personality types of the Enneagram to open your heart, [00:37:00] find joy, and discover your true self. That's an excellent subtitle. Yeah. Excellent. Excellent. Oh! And there's a quote on the cover. If you're ready to embark on a journey of self discovery and understanding others like never before, this book is your guiding light.

Gabrielle Bernstein. That's right. My love, I am really excited that this book is going to fly off the virtual shelves right now because everyone's now listened to the end and they're like, holy crap, I want to know what my Enneagram type is. I want to learn. And there's nobody better than you to teach it to them.

And you also just have, um, clarity and depth at the same time. And so I think that is such a beautiful quality to be able to be clear, like the Enneagram made easy, but also holds so much depth and truth in the work. And it's not, you're not watering it down. No. You couldn't. No. There's just, that's just not possible for you.

No. So where can everybody find this book? Where they can they find you? They can find [00:38:00] me@deboraheggerton.com And you have to spell it.

Deborah? Yes. DEBO Rh A h. Yep. And Eggerton, E-G-E-R-T-O-N. People love to, to just mess up the spelling. Yep. But so everything is there on my website, all the things that I'm doing and places and you and I are going to be in Phoenix.

We're going to be in Phoenix together, baby. I can't wait to hang out. That's my favorite thing to do, is hang out with you guys. Oh my God. It's just like family. Yeah, and I just really want to encourage people to, to read this book first for yourself, then consider working with your team. If you have a team of people that you work with, consider welcoming them into this conversation.

And then if you have a partner, we're or friends that are open, not, don't be a pusher, but if they're open, then bring them in on this. This is what I loved, loved about writing this book. Once you learn the Enneagram, usually you get so excited. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. You've got to learn the Enneagram and that's going to heal our relationship, but it's not if the other person is not there.

[00:39:00] One person, they have to both be on board. I say, get the book and just, Leave it on the coffee table. Yeah. So that they can understand what you're so excited about. Yeah. And you can start out by saying, read about me and see if you think that matches me. Yeah. And then when it matches you, then they get curious about whether or not.

There's a particular energy in there that matches them. So you bring people along. You're born with your type, and I think it's important for people to know that. Yeah. You know, you can just see it. I have three children, three different Enneagram energies, and they're raised by the same parent. Yeah, exactly.

You know, so you know that your children come in with a different substrate. They're not identical. But as you Passed through time, people say, is it nature or nurture? It's a combination of the two. Yeah, of course. Because then, as you are raising that child who has a Predisposition for that certain type then certain things happen in the process of raising that [00:40:00] child that help you to begin to see Where that little personality is going.

Yes. I love you so much. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you

If you made it to the end of this episode, that means you're truly committed to miracles. I'm really proud of you. If you want to get more Gabby, tune in every Monday for a new episode. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss any of the guidance or special bonus episodes. Your experience at this show means a lot to me, so I really want to welcome you to leave an honest review.

And you can follow me on social media at Gabby Bernstein. And if you want to get in on the action, sign up for a chance to be Dear Gabby'd live at DearGabby.com. See you next week. Gabby. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in [00:41:00] products or services referred to in this episode.